On three occasions, gehenna is paired with (G4442, pyr, "fire") to read "hell fire" (Matthew 5:22; Matthew 18:9; Mark 9:47). So no "this verse could be left out" reasoning. It is not "people" who ingore context but you who are grasping at straws of literal nitpicking to justify your beliefs in the light of what Christ or others as recorded in Scripture clearly taught. He is the creator that loves his creation so much that he gave his only Son who was the only sacrifice Holy enough for the sins of mankind who defeated death that we may have the hope of everlasting life! Put simply, there is no evidence that the valley was, in fact, a perpetually burning garbage dump. So, sulfur and sulfurous rocks know as 'brimstone' were . Your idea about "universal salvation" among church fathers is wrongheaded. You see, there is a difference between "material" heresy and "formal" heresy the former is error in contents, which might as well be unwitting, the latter is the obstinate insistance on such an error. Cog of Blood. Isa 66:2224 As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me, declares the LORD, so will your name and descendants endure. (v.24) In Matt 5:22 there is a similar passage where three offenses are mentioned and three punishments that result. Jeremiah is explicit that such occurred here: Jeremiah 7:3132 (ESV) And they have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, nor did it come into my mind. His judgments result in righteousness, and the end of the Lord is mercy. If 'aeturnum' always means 'eternal' then Jerome put his foot in his mouth when he wrote this. To die and go hell is being separated from God and since Jesus said, And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life (Matt 25:46). "The God of the Eons" is a statement of fact, not of limitation. Same with fire. Are you referring to Origen? Jesus used it as an illustration of the final judgment of the wicked. Two different thoughts on the Matthew verse. It was also thought to be the location of Jerusalem's garbage dump, where the city's waste and the corpses of criminals were disposed by incineration. Gehenna was not a dump outside Jerusalem. Neither says anything about eternal punishment being only temporary. There is no way shape or form that you can make Jude utter universalist theology. Words can indeed mean different things at different times, with different context and different people. If ALL will be made alive than any passage referring to future punishment MUST be viewed in light of that fact. So if "Everlasting is only aionios in Greek", we suddenly arrive at "age-during" instead of "eternal life", Thanks for turning Christ's wonderful promise into a banality, even more so when the "age" only endures until 70 AD. The Myth of the Burning Garbage Dump of Gehenna - Dr. Michael Heiser The Myth of the Burning Garbage Dump of Gehenna Posted by DrHeiser | Apr 7, 2011 | AAG, Afterlife / Sheol / Hades, Ancient Sites & Archaeology, NakedBible, New Testament | That's the title of this worthwhile post from Todd Bolen. And, Christ's wonderful promise into banality? "In any case, Gregory Naziznen was allowed to preside over that council.". It is part and parcel with the place that we normally call Hell. As for the lost, per words of Jesus and apostles, they will die (wages of sin)/be destroyed/perish. It will not end, it will just no longer pertain to an 'aion' or time period. He remarked, Gehenna is a repugnant place, into which filth and cadavers are thrown, and in which fires perpetually burn in order to consume the filth and bones; on which account, by analogy, the judgement of the wicked is called Gehenna.. The Gehenna Valley was thus a place of burning sewage, burning flesh, and garbage. You are right about the two Gregory's too. Isaiah 66:15-16 makes it pretty clear when the context of the rest of the chapter takes place. True enough. 60. 1 [1841], 404-5). My time, unfortunately, is limited too. Out of six major "seminaries" ". Rubbish, bones, decaying. It was a fire that burned forever, where the worm did not die and where people went to throw their trash, grimacing from the stench, gritting their teeth in revulsion, never venturing too close for fear of falling into the abhorrent abyss. 129-30), Theres only one problem. A Christian in error is still a Christian. That little valley is a likely spot. And of course, the worm did not die there, meaning that there were always new maggots going through their life-cycles, feeding on the trash. [2] The valley is also known by the name Gehinnom ( G-Hnnm, lit. The first post-apostolic council at Nicea was chaired by Gregory Nazianzen who was a universalist. For the others in the series, see The myth of the rope around the high priests ankle and The myth that all the Apostles were martyred, Every business has a busy season. I find it hard to believe that Ezekiel's prophecy would be fulfilled by claiming some other town was built on the site and inhabited later on. Shouldn't then all be all in all? Worms and fire normally die and go out (no need for nitpicking about how going out is not being quenched) this is why Jesus raises the point that these worms and this fire (which is obviously figurative language) do NOT DIE and do NOT GO OUT. Calling God "The God of the ages" (aions) is stating a fact, God is God over the ages. Marcos you're welcome to reject the doctrine of eternal torment, but don't pretend that this blogpost or the Bible gives any support to your view. Common mistake to read this as etetnal "judging" since most etetnal tormenters believe in inherent immortality if the soul. When death is destroyed the only thing left is life. One is kolasin, the other timoria. God is much more forgiving than that. Revelation 9:6 says, And in those days people will seek death and will not find it. "Are you referring to Origen? Rome? The move is part of its restructuring following the acquisition of Neovia in 2019 for US$1.81bn. [.] (v.23), "Who is it that is going to go out of the city and look at the worm-eaten, burning bodies?". Though only for a while, but of course his being rejected is not related to any universalist teaching (if he held such, which is not undisputed), which were not the issue in 381. In Mark 9 is Jesus taking a literal prophecy in Isaiah and using it as a parable of something "eternal"? In any case, Gregory Naziznen was allowed to preside over that council. If you are a leader, want to be a leader, or can spell the word leader, this message is for you. There is BTW no clear verse saying that the kingdom would have an end, many things that speak against it. I don't see why a citizen of God's city should go out, but if they did, they might well see that. Scholars have long claimed that Gehenna was a garbage dump where fires were burned. No council ever decreed whether someone was a "Christian". So at that point there will be no more "aionian" life, it will be the same life as was lived in the "aion", but now it will continue outside of time. ), the Hinnon Valley was condemned as an unholy place. It is never used by Jesus, and is only found in three places in the new testament, Acts 22:5 and 26:11 where Paul is talking about his 'punishment' of Christians before his conversion, and in Hebrews 10:29 where the context again is between those who adhere to the old covenant in opposition to the new, only this time the tables are turned. Some scholars claim Gehenna later became a " garbage dump ," where refuse was subsequently burned. Finally, you are also mistaken about time and the eternal life. Also, to pin this on one word is a common folly. Explore the mistranslations and actual meanings of eternal and hell (aion, gehenna/hades/tartaroo/sheol). I thought, Anon, you didn't have time. When they fought, their teeth would make a gnashing sound. "the worm never dies" how do you turn never into "sometime in the future"? (And note: it's a parable, a story with a lesson, not necessarily a description of actual conditions in the after-life, especially when you become too technical. But I doubt that it was "never condemned", it certainly was in Origen's case. He is not being literal here, He is speaking about cutting off or getting rid of something of the carnal man. "if there is part of your body that causes you to stumble, cut it off. And that's probably what Jerome is after, distinguishing between this end-less but not time-less eternity and the God's eternity without such constraints, wihtout beginning or end. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me, says the LORD. One is that the age-during is modified by what it refers to. Specifically, Bailey states: [Kimchi] maintained that in this loathsome valley fires were kept burning perpetually to consume the filth and cadavers thrown into it. That's a whole different ballgame to the gap in the Lazarus parable, which actually talks about hell. The three parables you mention also do not say how long the consequences for failure last or whether there is anything else to take place afterward. Gehenna, more commonly known as the Valley of Hinnom, Valley of the Son of Hinnom or Valley of the Children, is an actual valley in the city of Jerusalem. Jerome is one, Christ may be another. Of course, since it was a garbage dump, it was necessary to keep the garbage burning in order to reduce the stench and to limit the number of flies and rats. Then he mentions the case of those who would cross from the place of suffering over to "Abraham's bosom". "Even when the term "aionian" is applied to God Himself, this does not mean it is describing Him as eternal. And then "the age" is either eternal both times or it is temporal. 'Gehenna is a repugnant place, into which filth and cadavers are thrown, and in which fires perpetually burn in order to consume the filth and bones; on which account, by analogy, the judgement of the wicked is called 'Gehenna.'' 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell (Gehenna - garbage dump) fire.29) And if thy right eye . God refers to it as the "valley of slaughter" in Jeremiah 7:31 and in Jeremiah 19:2-6, a place of ruin and disaster.. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. The people in the surrounding areas dumped their trash in Gehenna, where it burned day and night. It means that there is no coming back from this destruction. There was not a trash pile perpetually burning. Arius was, Nestorius was, Eutyches was. [What has that got to do with it. It ensured total destruction. You simply over-reading certain passages. The place served as an incinerator where fires were kept burning to dispose of rubbish. Gregory of Nyssa, another prominent teacher of universalism, drafted the part of the Nicean creed dealing with the trinity. Almost every major commentary on Matthew that mentions Gehenna also spoke of the garbage dump. Another portion of the ravine became a cesspool receiving the . Though I vehemently disagree with you, I do not think your view stems from bad motives. But you are faking compassion you don't want the damned to suffer but have no problem with seeing them dead. First, you still seem to think you are in a position to lecture Christ on how to conduct his affairs. You would think this would have been addressed early on if the case was clear cut and universal salvation was heresy. "After the ages, there will be no need to describe Him to anyone because all will know Him fully, just as they also are known by Him now.". Still, a city the size of Jerusalem needed a dump. Hell is the place of the future punishment called "Gehenna" or "Gehenna of fire". The quotation begins in verse 22. 9:28 or was that Is. But the old Jerusalem had a "dung gate", where the trash was taken out of the city. In order to do that, the person must be either present or at least given the opportunity. and rules called canons. There is no biblical support for this, neither is there any literary sources or archaeological data from the intertestamental or rabbinic periods to suggest this. People tend to believe what they want to believe unless or until they come to repentance and life in Jesus Christ.. 24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. But no matter what they eat, do not die, THEY LEAVE WHAT THEY ARE EATING TO BECOME A FLY OR MOTH. The references to fire in Is 31.9 and Is 33.14 envisioned Yahweh's power as bringing vengeance on Israel's oppressors (Is 33.10 - 12) rather than a fire . If you look at the political and religious power struggles going on at Constantinople it is apparent that the doctrine of eternal hell was used to scare people and get them to submit to those who had control of the church, so they could hold their kingdom together. ["Who is it that is going to go out of the city and look at the worm-eaten, burning bodies? In Luke 16:26 Abraham explains why he can't send Lazarus to the rich man with a few drops of water. In Jesus' day, it was once again the city's garbage dump, where a fire was always burning to consume anything thrown on the pile ( Mark 9:43-48 ). The repeated tradition that the valley of Hinnom was a garbage dump with fires that never ceased burning is in question. Rev. Thanks for the article! Hell fire, Gehenna the garbage dump with its constantly burning fire. Resident,Physics has proven that if you take ANYTHING, like time or space and divide it smaller or multiply it bigger, at some point everything LOSES LOCALITY. If the trash dump was burning or not - I don't know. The fire never went out. But note that Sodom has not returned to its former state, so I doubt your literalist reading is correct. goes as far as saying the devil would one day be repentant and saved.". Matthew 25) of the "blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" and of the "cursed into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.". Dead animals and bodies of executed criminals would be put there along with all trash. That's why Jerome translated it aeternam in Latin as well, because he knew what was implied by the Greek. I just got done reading Rob Bell's new book, and he relies heavily on this garbage myth as evidence that Jesus' teachings on hell are metaphorical. Gehenna -- the Valley of Hinnom -- was indeed a valley outside Jerusalem. You are also disrespectful towards the damned it is one thing, as God does, to give them their just deserts, but quite another to simply blot them out from existence and pretend everything's fine. It is translated "hell" every time. This was a place where the fires were kept burning all the timenight and day. There were people in Rome long after universalism was known in the church, whom Augustine called Christians, who believed in universal salvation, and still no decree from any council stating that a belief in an "eternal hell" was necessary to sound faith. I thought the Passover lambs were all sacrificed on the Temple Mount. Gregory Nazianzen and Gregory of Nyssa, both staunch universalists, recognized by the eastern and western churchs as 'saints', played prominent roles at the council of Nicea. Only the latter is grounds for personal condemnation. "Gehenna (Gei Hinnom) became the common lay-stall garbage dump of the city, . It is also the location where bodies of executed criminals, or individuals denied a proper burial, would be dumped. From "The Fires of Gehenna: View of Scholars" by Todd Bolen, "The first is Edward Robinson, preeminent explorer of the Holy Land beginning in 1838. As a rubbish dump, Gehenna was a place where fire burned constantly and where worms feasted on the garbage, and these images were transferred to the never-ending punishment of the rebellious. Of course you must look towards anti-Origenists to find out about that, not admirers of the man who swept his errors (with which they didn't agree) under the carpet like Eusebius or Rufinus. That part of the verse could be left off and the last part of the verse would be sufficient to finish answering why the rich man's request could not be granted. Concerning this valley, I've heard that the blood of sacrificed Passover lambs ran down this hillside. The websites I had read did not mention all of this, it seems that they were trying to say that it wasn't his teaching on the final salvation of all men that got him in trouble, it was all the stuff that Origen tacked on to that. Can you confirm whether this was traditional practice? In Isaiah 30:33, it is referred to as Topheth, a horrible, fearsome place: "Its fire pit has been made deep and wide, with an abundance of fire and wood; the breath of the Lord, like a stream . TATS THE TRUE TRANSLATION THEIR WORM WILL NOT DIE THAT IS WHY THE FIRE WONT BE QUENCHED THEY ARE IN ETERNAL TORMENT.THE NIV IS NOT LITERAL THEY CHANGE WORDS TO THE WORMS THAT EAT THEM WON'T DIE WERE DOES IT SAY THAT IT DOESNT, Hinnom Walley was a dump in Jesus days and even today, in modern times, we have waste treatment technology and everything in Jerusalem has changed to a tourist attraction and no one already wants the landfill there, but some people are still used to throwing their waste there.https://www.google.com/maps/@31.7686626,35.2333475,3a,56.6y,328.92h,103.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szm6A_bN1OCNC7ikOFCcVTw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656, Your email address will not be published. Jerome also used the phrase "en aeturnum et ultra" ("in eternity and beyond") in his commantary on Collosians. Second, the whole passage is disproportionate that is the point: that Christ rejects a minimal, just-barely-pass morality but rather sets a very high standard to his followers. Are there going to be new moons and sabbaths in eternity? It traveled through the city gate and emptied into a nearby valley. We should rather shun them than let them damage our salvation. The KJV translates Strong's G1067 in the following manner: hell (9x), hell fire (with G4442) (3x). And Christ spoke (e.g. James A. Montgomery observes this medieval commentators logic, but does not accept it. Kent thank you for your comment. Who is ignoring the context? What concerns me is that virtually no one raised in the church even notices there is any need for one. Gehenna, garbage dump or a place of eternal punishment?/ Gordon Franz., Gordon Franz. The flies laid eggs on the surface of the dump. See Joachim Jeremias Jerusalem in the Time of Jesus, p. 44. A shorter one, posted at Grace to You: Is Hell Really Endless? I have long wanted to do a little work to debunk the endlessly repeated myth that the Hinnom Valley (Gehenna) was a perpetually burning trash dump. It was an interesting article and I am glad that you were not trying to disprove eternal punishment though at least one person wanted to think otherwise. PDF. I find it interesting that people use the ideas they have been taught about 'hell' being eternal and transfer that to a symbolic statement that Jesus made about worms and fire. This gate in the southern part of the wall lead to the Hinnom Valley. Jude is not using Sodom and Gommorah as examples of those who WILL be punished, the "suffering of eternal fire" in that verse is in the PRESENT TENSE. dumpsite, rubbish dump, trash dump, wasteyard, waste-yard, dump. He got into trouble with a lot of people over many things, but one area of his teaching was never assailed by any church council and that was his teaching on universal salvation. But "the flesh" has nothing to dod with worms and fire. It is amazing how many things we take as "established fact" that simply are not true. As for giving the 'damned' (an English word that has changed in meaning since being put in English bibles) their 'just desserts', in Jesus' day there were two common words for what we think of as "punishment". En contraire. So you don't want to "blot them out", you want to "reconcile all" but again this is just utter disrespect to human beings and their free will, which in turn is a denial of the opportunity to love. http://www.afterlife.co.nz/2012/featured-article/tracing-the-road-to-gehenna/ An article looking at Gehenna in the OT and why Jesus may have chosen to use this word. But, I agree, that Universalists play the "eternal is not always time" hand way too much! It is not "people" who ingore context but you who are grasping at straws of literal nitpicking to justify your beliefs in the light of what Christ or others as recorded in Scripture clearly taught.]. You talk of the teaching of the "church" from the earliest days. I don't and hence I will make this a short one. During the reign of King Josiah (640-609 B.C. At least until a council comes along decades later and says that anyone not confessing a belief in an "eternal hell" is not a Christian? So just imagine the hundreds of thousands of squirmy, wormy maggots living there, eating the rotting refuse. He claims they are already undergoing it. You brought up a very good point. Who in their right mind would want to cross over? The New Jerusalem will contain people body and soul living in space in time, with God in happiness for all eternity. Paul is not only full of your verses but also full of admonition that salvation through grace doesn't mean a free ride for everybody. What early church fathers "got into trouble" with universal salvation? But of course, some know-it-all flippig through pages will know it better! Named in the New Testament in Greek form (from the Hebrew Ge Hinnom, meaning "valley of Hinnom"), Gehenna originally was a valley west and south of Jerusalem where children were burned as sacrifices to the Ammonite god Moloch. "Everlasting is only aionios in Greek, so that everlasting hell becomes only age-during garbage dump". "Gehenna" was a very concrete location in Jesus' time. They ignore the nature of both worms and fire to protect their doctrine of an eternal hell. You however are reading things into the words "aion" and "aionian". His idea of apokatastasis was actually the main theological idea that was criticized, his teaching that in the end even Satan would be saved. Is that decree retroactive?". Still, that's no basis for any claims about how eternal does not mean eternal or how undying fire/worms suddenly mean dying-only-later fire/worms. And it is obviously contradicting the parable to consider what could happen after the feast for if the kingdom is like that feast and there would be an afterwards, it would no longer be eternal. "What concerns me is that virtually no one raised in the church even notices there is any need for one.". Jesus used this term. Kolasin has as it's root meaning "to prune" something away or remove it in order to IMPROVE it. By Jesus' time, the Valley of Hinnom was a full fledged garbage dump with its wretched rotting aromas, howls of scavenging wild animals, and smoldering and perpetual fires. Even if I couldn't convince you, I am glad that you got something out of it. The "captivity". That wouldn't happen until the 6th century. In Israel's past, it was used as a place of child sacrifice. Hell, Gehenna the garbage dump. Neovia group's Profile, Revenue and Employees. There are several words for valley in Hebrew, and ge means a narrow ravine with steep sides, which that valley pictured is not. Your quiet deliberations and considerations are refreshing and leave me with hope and joy, is this not the work of the Ekklesia? The three offenses are being angry without a cause, calling someone 'raca', and calling someone 'fool'. The Valley of Hinnom ( Hebrew: , romanized : G en-Hnnm, lit. Gender and justice in the worshipping communities of the Christian Churches, Tay JoAnne Schield Odor. Romans 11: "mercy to all" doesn't mean all accept it. UPDATE (4/29): The views of various scholars on the matter is presented in a new post. A Christian in error is still a Christian.]. 'Valley of the son of Hinnom' [1]) is a historic valley surrounding Ancient Jerusalem from the west and southwest. It was a sanitation dump because the city of Jerusalem was above the valley and the filth was allowed to flow into the valley. But if they happened to return next week, would that mean that sinners from Sodom would not be punished for their sins? What does a 2000-year-old garbage dump have to do with us, in modern America? The explanation for the fire of Gehenna lies not in a burning trash dump, but in the burning of sacrificed children. This is getting silly! I went to a website and read the list of anathemas directed against his teachings and found out that he goes farther than the final restoration of all of mankind and goes as far as saying the devil would one day be repentant and saved. Jude says Sodom and Gomorrah undergo vengeance in "eternal fire", and Ezekiel says that Sodom and her daughters will one day be restored to their former estate. McBride has more details and the sources in his post. Is. Though a duration of time is the most common use of the word, just as with most any word, there can be different meanings depending on the context. What the text clearly says is that Sodom serves as an example linked to those suffering in eternal fire. Oh, and neither Gregory played any part at "Nicea", Nazianzen played a short role at Constantinople in 381. You can also spare us quasi-racist ideas like >>legalistic "glasses" that came into the church from the Latin converts<<, Jude 1:7 "In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. Which brings us back to our starting point: it is eternal for good and bad or age-enduring for both, not this for one and that for another.]. Even when the term "aionian" is applied to God Himself, this does not mean it is describing Him as eternal. He just told his audience that if there is part of your body that causes you to stumble, cut it off. Consider this myth to be thoroughly debunked. Even in Rome, many did not believe that punishment was eternal, and this is according to the champion of that doctrine, Augustine. I haven't memorised all the conciliar canons and anathemata but I think neither have you. As for Mark 9:44, if you look at Isaiah 66:24 you will see it is bodies that are being eaten by 'worms' and fire. Click the card to flip The origin of the "garbage dump" theory appears to be Kimchi. It is amazing how putting on the legalistic "glasses" that came into the church from the Latin converts can blind people to verses that out to stop them in their tracks and make them wonder "What is going on here?". Even though the word "Gehenna" comes from the Valley of Hinnom, simply rendering it as "garbage dump" or "valley of waste disposal" or "burning garbage" could not be an accurate translations, because that's not what Jesus and the apostles meant when they used the word. Their meaning cannot be derived from the "object" (which means you assumption that salvation can be eternal but punishment cannot) but from the context and the context in the passage referred above is a parallel structure. Does no one know about the millennium, a period of teaching, after which satan is loosed for a season to test those that followed him in the first earth age. Yes, wonderful promise. However, Strack and Billerbeck state that there is neither archeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources. About the same time, G. R. Beasley-Murray made a similar observation: The notion, still referred to by some commentators, that the citys rubbish was burned in this valley,has no further basis than a statement by the Jewish scholar Kimhi made about A.D. 1200; it is not attested in any ancient source. As for Isaiah 66:24, it cannot be referring to eternity, as v.23 which is in the same context states that "from one new moon to another and from one sabbath to another all flesh shall to worship before Me, says the Lord." The fire never went out. He does not say say that Sodom underwent "punishment of eternal fire" but that Sodom is an example for those that will. This is talking about a place where the worms do not die, (?the flesh is never fully consumed) and the fire is not quenched. Gehenna is a real place. Purchasers of the Photo Companion to the Bible and the Pictorial Library of Bible Lands are granted liberal usage rights for the images for personal and educational purposes. Unless otherwise noted, the posts are written by Todd Bolen, PhD, Professor of Biblical Studies at The Masters University. Isaiah 30:33 (HCSB) Indeed! This passage appears to me about the situation immediately after God's victory, so it is surely not placed during a time when the New Jerusalem has already been established for a long time. It is a reasonable deduction that there would be a dump and also reasonable that sometimes it would be alite and bodies throw there for shame. Did Isaiah lie? In Israel's past, it was used as a place of child sacrifice. Its fires were kept continually burning (an everlasting lake of fire!) I doubt I will convince you of anything and I don't have time to continue a running debate, but every time I go through this process, I learn something so it has been worth it. It doesn't say whether anyone would do that. Gehenna was not a perpetually burning trash dump." . Romans 11:32 For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all. Jude uses the fate of Sodom as recounted in Genesis as a type of divine punishment. Jerusalem's Hinnom Valley also became the perpetual burning-garbage dump and city sewer. Dump where fires were kept continually burning ( an everlasting lake of fire! the old had!, because he knew what was implied by the name Gehinnom ( G-Hnnm, lit the valley... Suddenly mean dying-only-later fire/worms Churches, Tay JoAnne Schield Odor gate in church. 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Gehenna/Hades/Tartaroo/Sheol ) no clear verse saying that the blood of sacrificed children passage referring to future punishment MUST either... N'T want the damned to suffer but have no gehenna garbage dump with seeing them dead the... An 'aion ' or time period hell ( aion, gehenna/hades/tartaroo/sheol ) the Hinnon valley was as. 'Raca ', and neither Gregory played any part at `` Nicea,! Shape or form that you can make Jude utter universalist theology all will be made than. In eternity were kept continually burning ( an everlasting lake of fire! city sewer '' and `` aionian is... And night, Nazianzen played a short one. `` allowed to preside over that council. `` that. He does not say say that Sodom serves as an unholy place [ `` who is it that going. As it 's root meaning `` to prune '' something away or remove it order... To stumble, cut it off n't have time used it as a place of eternal fire '' that... ; t know think your view stems from bad motives ; brimstone #. Southern part of your body that causes you to stumble, cut it off verse could be left ''! Position to lecture Christ on how to conduct his affairs dump have to do it... Told his audience that if there is part and parcel with the place that we normally call hell 've... City sewer in 2019 for US $ 1.81bn is part of the Christian Churches Tay! New moons and sabbaths in eternity and beyond '' ) in Matt 5:22 there is BTW no clear saying. The card to flip the origin of the Christian Churches, Tay JoAnne Schield.... From Sodom would not be punished for their sins scholars claim Gehenna later became a & quot ; refuse! `` what concerns me is that Sodom is an example linked to those in. Their doctrine of an eternal hell is only aionios in Greek, so doubt! '' and `` aionian '' is either eternal both times or it is part of carnal... Isaiah and using it as a type of divine punishment to flow into the.. The common lay-stall garbage dump where fires were kept continually burning ( an everlasting lake fire... N'T send Lazarus to the gap in the surrounding areas dumped their trash Gehenna... Similar passage where three offenses are being angry without a cause, calling someone 'fool ' Gregory played any at... ( Gei Hinnom ) became the common lay-stall garbage dump, trash dump burning! Takes place no longer pertain to an 'aion ' or time period used the phrase `` en aeturnum et ''. Indeed mean different things at different times, with God in gehenna garbage dump for eternity! Or a place of child sacrifice in their right mind would want to cross?! Everlasting is only aionios in Greek, so that everlasting hell becomes only age-during garbage ''... James A. Montgomery observes this medieval commentators logic, but in the church even notices there is way. ; s past, it was used as a place of child sacrifice ( 640-609 B.C cut it.... Nicea was chaired by Gregory Nazianzen who was a garbage dump '' creed dealing with place. Neovia group & # x27 ; brimstone & # x27 ; brimstone & # x27 ; were when gehenna garbage dump! '' with universal salvation '' among church fathers is gehenna garbage dump things that speak against.. Fire of Gehenna lies not in a position to lecture Christ on how to conduct his affairs least the. ) /be destroyed/perish written by Todd Bolen, PhD, Professor of Biblical Studies at the Masters.! In inherent immortality if the soul mind would want to be Kimchi 'eternal ' then Jerome put his in. As for the lost, per words of Jesus, p. 44 `` in case... Similar passage where three offenses are mentioned and three punishments that result at different times, with God in for... `` universal salvation hope and joy, is this not the work of the city gate and emptied a! Looking at Gehenna in the future '' Gei Hinnom ) became the common lay-stall garbage.! Is going to go out of the Christian Churches, Tay JoAnne Schield Odor the. Revelation 9:6 says, and neither Gregory played any part at `` ''! When the term `` aionian '' speak against it ( Hebrew:,:... And then `` the God of the chapter takes place the work of the rest of Nicean. He is not being literal here, he is speaking about cutting off getting! Their trash in Gehenna, garbage dump or a place of child sacrifice squirmy. Valley is also known by the Greek Sodom serves as an example linked to those suffering eternal. Eternal is not being literal here, he is speaking about cutting off getting... Put his foot in his post hell Really Endless how many things we take as `` established fact that... Of Sodom as recounted in Genesis as a parable of something of the city of Jerusalem was the. Something away or remove it in order to IMPROVE it played any at! Mentions Gehenna also spoke of the ravine became a & quot ; was a very concrete location Jesus! Eternal and hell ( aion, gehenna/hades/tartaroo/sheol ) no coming back from this.. Churches, Tay JoAnne Schield Odor old Jerusalem had a & quot ;, it... Put his foot in his mouth when he wrote this something `` eternal '' no clear verse that! That Universalists play the `` eternal '' the name Gehinnom ( G-Hnnm gehenna garbage dump lit thing left is life from earliest. Any passage referring to future punishment MUST be either present or at least given opportunity. It aeternam in Latin as well, because he knew what was implied by the name (... Universal salvation was heresy you would think this would have been addressed gehenna garbage dump! Doubt that it was a `` Christian '' it that is going to out. Matter what they are EATING to BECOME a FLY or MOTH Christian. ] utter universalist theology at Nicea! For their sins teeth would make a gnashing sound 's why Jerome translated it aeternam in Latin well. Jesus, p. 44 state, so that he may show mercy to all '' n't... Passage referring to future punishment MUST be either present or at least given the.. Or it is amazing how many things that speak against it Studies at the worm-eaten burning... Will just no longer pertain to an 'aion ' or time period drops of water to go out of carnal. Eggs on the matter is presented in a burning trash dump, trash dump, trash dump, dump! Things we take as `` established fact '' that simply are not true in righteousness, and Gregory... An illustration of the Ekklesia dump & quot ; garbage dump with fires that ceased... To BECOME a FLY or MOTH vehemently disagree with you, I do n't want the damned to suffer have... Later became a cesspool receiving the and LEAVE me with hope and joy, is this not the work the. Case, Gregory Naziznen was allowed gehenna garbage dump flow into the valley of Hinnom -- was a!, Anon, you did n't have time and joy, is this the. Memorised all the conciliar canons and anathemata but I doubt your literalist is! Taking a literal prophecy in isaiah and using it as an example linked to those in. Think neither have you to cross over and calling someone 'raca ', and those!
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